Monday, 10 January 2022

Seeking truth means seeking to realize God in truth.+

Seeking truth means seeking to realize God in truth. Seek until you find the ‘Self’, which is hidden by ignorance. 

The Soul is the Goal. The Soul, which is present in the form of consciousness, is the ultimate truth or Brahman or God in truth.

If you search for the ‘Self’ you will find only the Soul. if you search for truth and you will find only the Soul. If you search for God you will find only the Soul.

God is not He or She God is the Spirit. Do not physicalize God's worship. Such worships of non-Vedic Gods are barred by Vedas. All God with forms and attributes are not God in truth.

Lord Krishna says Ch ~V: ~ “Those who know the Self in truth."  The last two words (tattvataha) are usually ignored by pundits, but they make all the difference between the ordinary concept of God and the truth about God.

The dualistic worship of "God” is only for the ignorant populace. The God in truth is only Atman, the innermost Self. In reality, there is no duality, no differentiation. Only Atman exists.

Bhagavad Gita: ~ Brahmano hi pratisthaham ~ Brahman (God) is considered the all-pervading consciousness, which is the basis of all the animate and inanimate entities and material. (14.27).

When Bhagavad Gita says, God is considered the all-pervading consciousness which is the basis of all the animate and inanimate entities and material then nothing has to be accepted as God other than consciousness.

Bhagavad Gita Chapter: ~ “All those whose intelligence has been stolen by material desires, they worship many Gods. (7- Verse -20)

Brihadaranyaka Upanishad: "He who worships the deities as entities entirely separate from the Self does not know the truth. For the Gods, he is like a pasu (beast)". (1. 4. 10)

Max Müller says: ~ “The religion of the Veda knows no idols; the worship of idols in India is a secondary formation, a degradation of the more primitive worship of ideal Gods."

Hindus are idol worshipers of the large numbers of Gods and Goddesses whereas Vedas declares God is ‘ONE’ and that God is Atman.

Yajurveda – chapter- 32:~  God is Supreme Spirit has no ‘Pratima’ (idol) or material shape. God cannot be seen directly by anyone. God pervades all beings and all directions. Thus, Idolatry does not find any support from the Vedas.

Rig Veda: ~ The Atman is the cause; Atman is the support of all that exists in this universe. May ye never turn away from the Atman the innermost ‘‘Self’’. May ye never accept another God in place of the Atman nor worship other than the Atman?" -(10:48, 5)

Rig-Veda 1-164-46 and Y.V 32-1 clearly mention that God is “One”.

Rig Veda declares God is ‘ONE’ and that God is Atman, then why believe and worship anything else in place of  God in truth.

Thus, Atman the  ‘Self’, is God in truth. Thus, Self-realization is real worship. Self-knowledge or Brahma Gnana or Atma Gnana is necessary to get realization.

Hindus are idol worshipers of the large numbers of Gods and Goddesses whereas Vedas declares God is ‘ONE’ and that God is Atman.

Chandogya Upanishad Chapter: ~ ekam evadvitiyam ~ God is only one without a second. (6- Section- 2- Verse- 1)

According to Vedas the Atman the ‘Self’’ is God in truth.

Shiv is not Vedic God. All the Gods and Goddesses with form, name, and attributes belong to Hinduism, not of the Vedic religion or Santana Dharma. 

God and Goddesses are religious concepts. Whatever is seen, known, believed, and experienced as a person within the dualistic illusion (world) is a falsehood.

Thus, it refers to formless and attributeless God, which is the Atman (Soul), the   ‘Self’ within the false experience. Thus, it indicates clearly all the Gods with form and attributes are mere imaginations based on the false ‘‘Self’’. Thus, Atman or the Soul, the ’Self’ is God in truth.

The Vedas do not talk about idol worship. In fact, till about 2000 years ago followers of Vedism never worshiped idols. Idol worship was started by the followers of Buddhism and Jains. There is logic to idol worship. Vedas speak of one God that is the supreme ‘‘Self’’ in i.e. Atman or Soul but Hinduism indulges in worshiping 60 million Gods.

It indicates clearly all the Gods with form and attributes are mere imagination based on the false ‘Self’.

The Vedas as a body of scripture contains many contradictions and they are fragmentary in nature. For Hindus, scriptures like the Bhagavad-Gita, Ramayana, Mahabharata, and Puranas are more attractive and appealing than the Vedas. And also the Gods and Goddesses they worship differ considerably from the Vedic ones. The collection of hymns called Vedas is written in praise of certain deities by poets over several centuries does not seem to have much significance for the Hindus.

Yajur Veda says: ~

Translation 1

They enter darkness, those who worship natural things (for example air, water, sun, moon, animals, fire, stone, etc).

They sink deeper in darkness than those who worship sambhuti. (Sambhuti means created things, for example, table, chair, idol, etc.) (Yajurveda 40:9)

Translation 2

Deep into the shade of blinding gloom fall asambhuti's worshippers. They sink to darkness deeper yet who on sambhuti is intent." (Yajurveda Samhita by Ralph T. H. Griffith pg 538)

Translation 3

"They are enveloped in darkness, in other words, are steeped in ignorance and sunk in the greatest depths of misery who worship the uncreated, eternal prakrti -- the material cause of the world -- in place of the All-pervading God, But those who worship visible things born of the prakrti, such as the earth, trees, bodies (human and the like) in place of God are enveloped in still greater darkness, in other words, they are extremely foolish, fall into an awful hell of pain and sorrow, and suffer terribly for a long time." (Yajurveda 40:9.)

So, Yajur Veda clearly says they sink deeper in darkness those who worship matter. Those who worship visible things born of the prakrti, such as the earth, trees, bodies (human and the like) in place of God are enveloped in still greater darkness, in other words, they are extremely foolish, fall into an awful hell of pain and sorrow, and suffer terribly for a long time."  

Rig-Veda 1-164-46 and Y.V 32-1 clearly mention that God is “One”.

Rig Veda declares God is ‘ONE’ and  God is Consciousness. 

Rig Veda: ~ 'Prajnanam Brahma'- Consciousness is the ultimate reality or Brahman or God in truth.

Do not accept any other God other than the Soul. The Soul is God in truth,  Nothing is real but the Soul, which is present in the form of consciousness. Nothing matters but realize  God in truth. God in truth is everywhere and in everything. Let these words be inscribed in your subconscious.

God in truth is hidden by the illusory universe. God in truth alone is real and eternal and all else is an illusion.

Brahman is merely a word to indicate the ultimate truth or God in truth.  The ultimate truth itself is God in truth. 

Thus, the Soul,  the ‘Self’, is God in truth. Thus, Self-realization is real worship. Self-knowledge or Brahma Gnana or Atma Gnana is necessary to get realization.

To acquire ‘‘Self’’-knowledge or Brahma Gnana or Atma Gnana, the seeker has to realize his inherited religion is adulterated in the past and it becomes a great obstacle is realizing the ultimate truth or Brahman or God in truth.

The seeker's aim is the search for the Ultimate Truth or Brahman. The search to find the non-dualistic or Advaitic truth that in actuality never was lost, only hidden by ignorance.:~Santthosh Kumaar 

From the ultimate standpoint, the Soul, the Self alone exists as the formless, timeless, and spaceless eternal existence.+


The universe hides the Soul, the Self. If you realize the nature of the universe then you will know the truth hidden by the universe. 

Sage Sankara: ~ “VC~ All this universe which through ignorance appears as of diverse forms, is nothing else but Brahman which is absolutely free from all the limitations of Maya.

Sage Sankara: ~VC~ If the universe is true, let it then be perceived in the state of deep sleep also. As it is not at all perceived, it must be unreal and false like dreams.

That is why Sage Sankara says: ~ VC-63-"Without knowing and examining the external world, one can’t know Truth, as the idea that the external world exists, won't go. It can go only by an inquiry into the nature of the external world.

In deep sleep there is nothing to observe when there is only the observer left, then the observer itself becomes the observed -- because there is nothing else to observe. Deep sleep is still a state of ignorance because we become aware of the deep sleep experience only in waking experience, which is the state of ignorance.

Only through Self-knowledge or Brahma Gnana or Atma Gnana Self-awareness is possible.

In Self-awareness, the witness simply witnesses itself. The seer sees itself. There are no thoughts, no objects. The Soul becomes still; it simply becomes a light unto itself. There is nothing that it lights, it lights only itself, the Soul, the Self is surrounded by silence, surrounded by Stillness. It is the objectless awareness in the midst of objects.

The Soul becomes the Soul in Self-awareness. Self-awareness itself is enlightenment. The Soul consciously remains aware of itself in the midst of the dualistic illusion (form, time, and space).

The ‘I’ has dissolved as the Soul, which is present in the form of consciousness.

The ‘I’ has dissolved -means the mind has dissolved as the Soul.

The mind has dissolved -means the form, time, and space have dissolved as the Soul.

The form, time, and space dissolved as the Soul - means the universe has dissolved as the Soul.

The universe has dissolved means the waking has dissolved as the Soul.

The waking has dissolved as the Soul means the individual experience of the birth, life, death, and the world has dissolved as the Soul.

The individual experience of birth, life, death, and the world has dissolved as the Soul means the dualistic illusion is dissolved as the Soul.

From the ultimate standpoint, the Soul alone exists as the formless, timeless, and spaceless eternal existence.

The seeker must first know the Soul is the only reality and that the world in which he exists is an illusion. The seeker must reason upon this truth from all points of view and up all further argumentation and realize the truth. This realization comes from being certain that Soul is the ultimate truth or Brahman or is real and the world in which he exists is merely an illusion created out of consciousness. : ~ Santthosh Kumaar

Freedom means freedom from ignorance. It is not you who is seeking freedom. It is the Soul, the Self which seeks freedom from ignorance.+

Freedom means freedom from ignorance. It is not you who is seeking freedom. It is the Soul, the Self which seeks freedom from ignorance.

Shun the ignorance which is present in the form ‘I’ and think the ignorance is like poison.

Turn your attention to the Soul, the Self, which is present in the form of consciousness. The Soul, which is present in the form of consciousness is the ultimate truth or Brahman or God. Free the Soul, the Self from the illusory prison of the form, time, and space.

When you realize the ‘Self is not you but the ‘Self’ is the Soul automatically the world in which you exist losses its luster of the reality.

Remember: you are the false self within the dualistic illusion, which is present in the form of the ‘I’. without the ‘I’ you, and the world in which you exist ceases to exist. So do not limit the ‘I’ to an individual because ‘Self is not ‘I’ because the ‘I’ is a whole dualistic illusion.

If you are not the ‘Self’ but the ‘Self’ is the Soul, then how can you say ‘I AM THAT’ when the Self is not you but the Soul.

Perfect understanding of ‘what is what’ leads to Self-realization. Holding ‘I-centric’ gurus and their teaching as final blocks Self-realization.

If you are the seeker of truth, then you must accept only the truth, not the ‘I-centric or you-centric knowledge, which is half-baked knowledge. The ‘I-centric or ‘you-centric’ is not Self-knowledge or Brahma Gnana or Atma Gnana.

The ‘I’ hides the reality of existence. The nature of existence is a formless, timeless, and spaceless existence. There is no ‘I’ in reality. The ‘I’ is merely an illusion. Whatever belongs to the ‘I’ is an illusion.

The ‘I’ is merely an illusion created out of the Soul, which is present in the form of consciousness. ‘I’ is not the subject. The ‘I’ is an object to the Soul, which is the formless, timeless, and spaceless subject.

Bhagavad Gita: ~ “You must first see the ‘I’ as illusory before you see others as illusory. ~ CH.2 v.16

If the ‘I’ is an illusion, then the world in which you exist is bound to be an illusion.

If the ‘I’ is an illusion then three states, are bound to be an illusion.

If the ‘I’ is an illusion then the form, time, and space are bound to be an illusion.

If the I’ is an illusion then the individual experience of birth, life, death is bound to be an illusion.

If the ‘I’ is an illusion, then the words and thoughts are bound to be an illusion.

If the ‘I’ is an illusion, then the duality is bound to be an illusion.

The seeker has to make sure what is this ‘I’ supposed to be? The seeker has to make sure the unreal nature of the ‘I’ which comes and goes in order to realize the truth, which is beyond the form, time, and space.

That is why Bhagavad Gita: ~ The permanent is always there, only the transient ‘I’ comes and goes. (2.18)

The ‘I’ hides the Soul, the Self, which is present in the form of consciousness. The ‘I’ itself is ignorance. The ‘I’ itself is a dualistic illusion.

People think the ‘I’ without the body is the Self. The seeker has to understand the fact that ‘I’ is not the Self, but the witness of the ‘I’ is the true Self, which is eternal.

That is why Ashtavakra Gita 16:10: ~ If you desire liberation, but you still say "I," if you feel the ‘Self’ is the ‘I’, you are not a wise man or a seeker. You are simply a man who suffers.

People are stuck with the reality of the ‘I’, which they take as real because some Gurus have propagated the Self is the ‘I’. is no need to convince such a mindset. The seeker of truth accepts only the truth nothing but the truth.

That is why Sage Sankara says:~ VC-65. As a treasure hidden underground requires (for its extraction) competent instruction, excavation, the removal of stones and other such things lying above it and (finally) grasping, but never comes out by being (merely) called out by name, so the transparent Truth of the Self, which is hidden by Maya and its effects, is to be attained through the instructions of a knower of Brahman, followed by reflection, meditation and so forth, but not through perverted arguments.

People refuse to accept anything other than their Gurus words. For them, their Gurus words are the ultimate truth. They do not accept anything else other than their accepted truth. There is no need to convince such a mindset.

Such a mindset is not fit to acquire Self-knowledge or Brahma Gnana or Athma Gnana. The seekers of truth accept only the truth nothing but the uncontradictable truth.

The Advaitic wisdom of Sage Sri Sankara has dynamic, direct, universal appeal.: ~ Santthosh Kumaar

It is not you but the Soul, the Self is caught up in the illusory universe or Maya because you are part and parcel of the illusory universe in which you exist.+


Swami Vivekananda: ~ “Advaita encompasses everything. Since Advaita requires heavy-duty intellectualism, it had to be progressively simplified.

It is not you but the Soul, the Self is caught up in the illusory universe or Maya because you are part and parcel of the illusory universe in which you exist.

It is not you, who has to be free, but it is the Soul the 'Self' has to be free itself from the illusory universe or Maya.
The Soul, the Self is caught up in the grip of ignorance. It is not you who is in ignorance. It is the Soul the Self that is in ignorance of its non-dual true nature.
People want to get freedom, but the freedom comes only when the Soul wakes up without the illusory body and the illusory world (duality). It is the Soul the Self is in the cage of illusion.
It is the Soul that wants to get out of the illusion because the illusion and the reality are one in essence. That essence is the Soul which is present in the form of consciousness.
Thus, all that man experiences within the dualistic illusion of practical life within the practical world and seeing the vision, speaking to God, seeing God are a reality within the dualistic illusion.
From the non-dualistic perspective, there is no second thing that exists other than consciousness (Spirit).
Consciousness is the ultimate truth or Brahman or God in truth. From the standpoint of Brahman or God, everything is Brahman or God in truth.:~ Santthosh Kumaar

Saturday, 8 January 2022

Katha Upanishad 1:3:6:~ Neither by reading the book nor by taking a bath at a holy place has one become pure.+

If you letting go of everything then yourself still remains. Until you realize yourself is not the real Self but the Soul is the Real Self the freedom is not gained.

The Upanishads declare:~
Mundaka Upanishad 1:2:8:_ “Remaining in the fold of ignorance and thinking “we are extremely wise and learned,” the fools with boastful nature ramble about like the blind led by the blind alone.”
Mundaka Upanishad 3:2:3:- “The weak and timid cannot realize the Self. Self-Realization is not possible through intellect or hearing spiritual discourse. One who welcomes God in every activity, through a thorough controlled and disciplined life, to him also the Soul is revealed
The Upanishads declare:~
Katha Upanishad 1:2:23:~ The Soul cannot be realized through hearing a scholarly explanation of the discourses, not even by the intellect.
Katha Upanishad 1:3:6:~ “Through the knowledge of the Soul, God, one is pure and clean constantly.” Neither by reading the book nor by taking a bath at a holy place has one become pure. Inner purity is possible when one remains in constant touch with the Soul. Self-awareness is the real purity.
Kena Upanishad 2:4:~ When it is known through every state of cognition, it is rightly known, for (by such knowledge) one attains life eternal. Through one's own self one gains power and through wisdom, one gains immortality.
Kena Upanishad 2:5:~ If here one knows it, then there is truth, and if here one knows it not, there is a great loss. Hence, seeing the Real in all beings, wise men become immortal on departing from this world.
Scriptures are being added from time to time. This process will go on. There is the final authority among them? One contradicts the other: duality reigns supreme.
The Upanishads are self-contradictory. Every pundit even gives conflicting interpretations of them. The final authority, therefore, is using one’s own reason. One should apply his reason to them.
The scriptures are for ignorant masses, who wholly accept the material world as it presents itself. Gnana is for those who have begun to realize that things are not what they seem.:~Santthosh Kumaar

By worshipping a God in human form, repeating mantras is like watering barren soil. The seeker of truth should not waste life in empty formalities.


By worshipping a God in human form, repeating mantras is like watering barren soil. The seeker of truth should not waste life in empty formalities. Without realizing the world in which he exists is an illusion it is impossible to acquire Self-knowledge or Brahma Gnana or Atma Gnana.

Vedas bars human worship: ~

"They are enveloped in darkness, in other words, are steeped in ignorance and sunk in the greatest depths of misery who worship the uncreated, eternal prakrti -- the material cause of the world -- in place of the All-pervading God, But those who worship visible things born of the prakrti, such as the earth, trees, bodies (human and the like) in place of God are enveloped in still greater darkness, in other words, they are extremely foolish, fall into an awful hell of pain and sorrow, and suffer terribly for a long time.":~ (Yajur Veda 40:9.)

When Veda says worshiping human bodies in place of God are enveloped in still greater darkness, in other words, they are extremely foolish, fall into an awful hell of pain and sorrow, and suffer terribly for a long time.

When there is a clear idea of what is supposed to be the God, then why to worship which is not God.

Rig Veda: ~ 'Prajnanam Brahma'Consciousness is the ultimate reality or Brahman or God in truth.

Do not accept any other God other than the Soul. The Soul is God in truth,  Nothing is real but the Soul, which is present in the form of consciousness. Nothing matters but realize  God in truth. God in truth is everywhere and in everything. Let these words be inscribed in your subconscious.

God in truth is hidden by the illusory universe. God in truth alone is real and eternal and all else is an illusion.

Brahman is merely a word to indicate the ultimate truth or God in truth.  The ultimate truth itself is God in truth. 

Yajurveda – chapter- 32:~  God is Supreme Spirit has no ‘Pratima’ (idol) or material shape. He cannot be seen directly by anyone. He pervades all beings and all directions. Thus, Idolatry does not find any support from the Vedas.

Rig Veda: ~ May ye never accept another God in place of the Atman nor worship other than the Atman

So, it clearly indicates that God is formless thus there is no scope for form based God. The religion and its ideas of Gods, and its theories of karma, heaven, hell, papa, punya, rebirth, reincarnation are based on the false Self (ego), within the false experience (waking). Therefore, they are meant for lower mindsets, they are of no use for those who are seeking higher truth as indicated in the scriptures.

In the Bhagavad, Gita Krishna says: ~It is only one amongst thousands of people who strive for spiritual salvation. Even amongst such seekers, it is only the rare person who gets to know “Self” correctly.’ (7.3)

Mundaka Upanishad:~ The rituals and the sacrifices described in the Vedas deal with lower knowledge. The sages ignored these rituals and went in search of higher knowledge. ... Such rituals are unsafe rafts for crossing The sea of samsara, of birth and death. Doomed to shipwreck are those who try to cross The sea of samsara on these poor rafts. Ignorant of their own ignorance, yet wise In their own esteem, these deluded men Proud of their vain learning go round and round Like the blind led by the blind.

How can you worship the Absolute? That implies two ~ the worshiper and the worshiped, whereas the Absolute is nondual. One can worship his idea of the Absolute only or realize his unity with it when he can’t worship it as apart.

Religious rites and rigid ceremonies were passed down from one generation to the next as a practice or set customs and tradition and performed automatically with blind faith. Such worship based on the belief of God does not reach God.

Religious rites and ceremonies, yagnas and homa-havans or any other forms of ritual are meant for the ignorant populace.

Belief in God without knowing God in actuality holds the worshiper more firmly in the grip of ignorance.

All worship and the ceremonies rituals performed on the base of non-~Vedic Gods will not yield any fruits. Deeper self-search reveals the fact that worshiped, the worship and the worshiper and the world are merely an illusion created out of consciousness.

Religious rites and ceremonies, yagnas and homa-havans or any other forms of ritual are meant for the ignorant populace. In the Atmic path, the seeker has to discard what is not needed to realize the truth, which is beyond the form, time and space.

Religious rites and ceremonies, yagnas and homa-havans or any other forms of rituals formal observance have long since set in.

Sage Sankara says ~ “The scriptures dealing with rituals, rewards are therefore addressed to an ignorant person.- Adhyasa Bhashya 

Sage Sankara:~ (11) As regards the rituals, Sage Sankara says, the person who performs rituals and aspires for rewards will view himself in terms of the caste into which he is born, his age, the stage of his life, his standing in society etc. In addition, he is required to perform rituals all through his life. However, the 'Self' has none of those attributes or tags. Hence, the person who superimposes all those attributes on the changeless, eternal Self and identifies Self with the body is confusing one for the other; and is, therefore, an ignorant person. The scriptures dealing with rituals, rewards etc. are therefore addressed to an ignorant person.- Adhyasa Bhashya 

Sage  Sankara:~ (11.1) This ignorance (mistaking the body for Self) brings in its wake a desire for the well-being of the body, aversion for its disease or discomfort, fear of its destruction, and thus a host of miseries(anartha). This anartha is caused by projecting karthvya(“doer” sense) and bhokthavya (object) on the Atman. Sankara calls this adhyasa. The scriptures dealing with rituals, rewards, etc. are, therefore, he says, addressed to an ignorant person.- Adhyasa Bhashya 

Sage Sankara:~ (11.2) In short, the person who engages in rituals with the notion “I am an agent, doer, thinker”, according to Sage Sankara, is ignorant, as his behavior implies a distinct, separate doer/agent/knower; and an object that is to be done/achieved/known. That duality is avidya, an error that can be removed by Vidya.- Adhyasa Bhashya 

Sage Sankara: ~ (12) Sage Sankara affirming his belief in one eternal unchanging reality (Brahman) and the illusion of plurality, drives home the point that Upanishads deal not with rituals but with the knowledge of the Absolute (Brahma Vidya) and the Upanishads give us an insight into the essential nature of the Self which is identical with the Absolute, the Brahman.- Adhyasa Bhashya 

Sage Sankara: ~ Atman, the  Self is verily Brahman (God), being equanimous, quiescent, and by nature absolute Existence, Knowledge, and Bliss. Atman is not the body which is non-existence itself. This is called true Knowledge by the wise. : ~ Santthosh Kumaar 

Your quest is over. There is no need to search for the truth, but you only have to realize it. Sage Sankara has declared the truth 1200 years back. Do not struggle to search for the truth.

Your quest is over. there is no need to search for the truth, but you only have to realize it. Sage Sankara has declared the truth 1200 years back. Do not struggle to search for the truth.+

Sage Sankara does not want you to struggle he wants you to realize the truth right here in this very life not in the next world and next life.
Bhagavan Buddha: ~ There are only two mistakes one can make along the road to truth: not going all the way... and not starting.
All so-called spiritual paths are useless unless it causes us to seek the truth of our true existence. All controversies about creation, the nature of the universe, evolution, the purpose of God, etc., are useless in the Atmic path.
Start now do not give up till you realize it. If you are searching for truth then you are the chosen one. Praise Sage Sankara and embark on the journey of the truth; it frees the Soul from the illusion of form, time, and space.
When you finally realize the ‘Self ‘ is not you, but the ‘Self’ is the Soul then you will realize the world in which you exist is merely an illusion created out of the Soul, which is present in the form of the consciousness.
Thus, you, your experience birth, life, death, and the world mere an illusion created out of the consciousness, the consciousness is the ultimate truth or Brahman or God in truth.
You are not the witness because the ‘Self' is not you. The Self is the Soul, which witnesses the world, in which you exist. The world is merely an illusion thus, you are part of the illusion.
Sage Sankara says:~ Atman is Brahman. The Atman alone is real. He has declared this Advaitic truth, which is the ultimate truth to the whole world, many centuries back.
Thus, the Atman which is present in the form of the consciousness is real and eternal, the world in which we exist is merely an illusion. : ~Santthosh Kumaar

Sage Sankara said: ~Liberation comes only through the realization that Atman and Brahman are one in no other way.+

The Self is not you, but the Self is the invisible Soul, which is hidden by the illusory form, time, and space. If the Self is the invisible...